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What in the Bible?!
Have you ever read the Bible and wondered, "King David did what?!" Or, have you come across the passage where Lot's daughters get him drunk and then sleep with him? How about the story of the younger brother that makes himself more hairy in order to trick his dying father into blessing him over his older brother?! And, don't get us started on Revelations! Oh wait, it's Revelation! These are only a few of the examples written in scripture that will have any new reader asking, "What in the Bible?!" In this podcast, we are two sisters reading through the Bible for the first time. Our goal is to share this experience with our listeners and have a lighthearted discussion over some of these controversial but often comical questions. Our hope is for our listeners to realize that reading and understanding the Bible is hard especially when reading it for the first time. It's okay to have questions or struggle with passages that make your eyebrows raise and your mind wonder, "What did I just read?!" We hope you will join us in this journey of working through difficult questions and growing in our relationship with Christ as we read and seek to understand God's Word.
What in the Bible?!
A Rib, A River, and Really Bad Directions to Eden
Genesis 2 introduces us to profound questions about God's design. Why would God create the Tree of Knowledge if He knew humans would sin? We explore how this apparent setup for failure actually reveals God's incredible gift of free will. He doesn't want robots programmed to love Him—He wants genuine relationship with people who choose Him willingly. This choice, while opening the door to sin, also created the pathway for His redemption plan through Jesus.
The creation of woman offers powerful insights about gender and marriage. When God took from Adam's "side" (not just a rib) to create Eve, He established a partnership of equals. This profound act set the foundation for marriage—two becoming one flesh—that reflects God's relationship with His people and Christ's love for the church. We delve into how the Hebrew word for "helper" (ezer) reveals women's divine strength, as this same word describes God Himself throughout scripture.
We also embark on a fascinating cartographic journey, tracing the four rivers that flowed from Eden to pinpoint where this garden might have existed. By tracking the Tigris, Euphrates, and other waterways, we discover compelling evidence that Eden may have been located in the highlands of modern-day Armenia. While maps and biblical geography might seem dry, understanding the physical context adds rich dimension to these foundational stories of creation.
What does it mean that Adam and Eve were "naked without shame"? Beyond physical nakedness, this speaks to complete vulnerability, trust, and acceptance—a quality of relationship God intended from the beginning. As you join our journey through Genesis 2, we invite you to reflect on how these ancient words reveal timeless truths about God's original design for humanity, partnership, rest, and our need for genuine relationship with our Creator.
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Hello, hello everyone, Welcome to what in the Bible. We are two sisters reading through Genesis to Revelation for the first time and asking the question that every new believer is thinking what in the Bible?
Speaker 1:What's up everybody. My name is Jenna. In this week's episode we are going to be discussing our reading of Genesis, chapter 2.
Speaker 2:Woohoo, and for those of you that don't know me, I'm Audrey. Welcome to our next episode. We just want to take a moment to thank everyone who has listened to our episode so far. The outpouring of love that you guys have sent us has meant the world to us. I really, I don't think either one of us have really. I mean, we, we planned on doing this podcast, but I think we were kind of like oh yeah, sure, we'll do a podcast, you know, but to actually do it and to have it out there and to have the response that we've had from our friends and family, it really truly does mean the world.
Speaker 2:So thank you guys for taking the time to listen and to give us your feedback. Yeah, speaking of had some.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we definitely had some. Probably the most loving and honest feedback that we've received was from my 10-year-old Well, nine, I keep saying 10 because he's so close to turning 10 and he keeps saying that he's 10. So, anyways, my nine-year-old son has been our biggest support and fan. To be totally honest, he is just the sweetest kid he has. I have a picture of him that he's on our couch and he's got his laptop on his lap and he's got his headphones on, he's got his bible out with his pencil and his highlighter and he's got the biggest smile on his face. He's giggling at something that we said, because, of course, he understands our humor because he's around us a lot. But anyways, yeah, he sat there and just dutifully listened to the entire thing, followed along, came afterwards and was like mom, I just loved your podcast. You and auntie Audrey are so awesome. You guys did such a good job and you answered so many questions that I had, and and then he kind of was quiet, you know, and just kind of smiled at me and I'm like, okay, that's all really sweet.
Speaker 1:So like, let's get down to it, because I know that you'll be honest, he really just impressed me because he has such an awareness of other people's feelings and he knew that he wanted to give some constructive criticism, but he wanted to do it in a very loving way, so he was careful with his words.
Speaker 1:But he was like so really great, lots, lots of info in there, maybe too much. He's like because you know, mom, you got to think like there could be people listening that haven't read the Bible and that's kind of a big part of what you guys want to do it's for new believers or first timers reading the Bible. And he was like I could see where there are moments where it's overwhelming because there's so much this and there's so much that, and he's like Mom, they might not even know who Moses is yet. And I'm like you know what that's such great advice, because I think that we maybe tend to get a little bit carried away with. This happened. And then you know, over in here, this happened and even though we're new at it, we do have somewhat of a knowledge.
Speaker 2:And we've heard lots of sermons, so that helps.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely so. I think it was great feedback and reflecting back. We were like you know what? Yeah, that's a great point, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love everything about that because he I mean I just when you were talking right now, I thought about that scripture where Jesus is basically thanking that God has revealed things to little children. You know when he's I think it's when he's talking to the right before he feeds the 5,000, which I'm taking from the scene in the Chosen and what I have read in the gospel.
Speaker 2:But I think that God says to be a believer, like a child. I mean I just love that, I love that. He's just so into it. And that picture I mean I wish we could show you guys that picture because it's the sweetest thing. He is diving headfirst in, has all of his stuff out and it's just, it's the sweetest thing he's. He is diving headfirst in, like, has all of his stuff out and he's just smiling, this smile of just pure joy and just like really I mean enjoying it. But then also for him to come with that considerate, you know, feedback in a loving way, that was just that meant the world.
Speaker 2:But on that note, yeah, I think you know, after that we were kind of like okay, you know, while we still, I think, want to dive deep into a lot of these chapters, I think it would be helpful to mention you guys don't have to like, just read, you know what we're reading.
Speaker 2:In fact, I think and I don't know how you know you're reading, as Vince says, but for me I usually try and jump around a little bit I think it really is important, if you haven't read the Gospels, to maybe start there and you can read the Gospels, you know, while you're also listening to this podcast and then reading each chapter as we go along, and luckily we are, for now, taking this one chapter at a time about biweekly. So all of that to say, I think that you can take your time, read the Gospels while you're also, you know, reading one chapter at a time with us in the book that we're in, and that may help clarify a lot of things and help build your knowledge. If you haven't read it, or you know, when we start talking about some of these people that we haven't actually gotten to yet, that will hopefully maybe help clear some things up. Absolutely cool, all right, so we were going to try and memorize scripture. Oh no, what's laughing is I don't know that either one of us has it like nailed down.
Speaker 2:But that's okay, that's the point, right, I mean.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Do you want to go first?
Speaker 1:Sure. Okay, I'm not going to look at you because I've okay, I know we sat down and Audrey asked about our memorizing and I just looked at her kind of like I'll attempt it.
Speaker 1:She's over there like trying to memorize it again. Yeah, I'm like okay, how God created mankind in his own image. In the image of God he created male and female. He created them. I think I'm off a few words but it just repeats itself kind of. So I just have to like say the first part and then kind of you know reword it, but yeah very good job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't get on me, I tried.
Speaker 1:It's close, yeah, you know it's so funny.
Speaker 2:I listened to a local radio station here, 91.1 KLB, I think, KNLB. Sorry, it's basically like the local Christian radio station and they have in the afternoons they have Treehouse One, which is like a kids-based ministry with Miss Debbie and those kids yeah, they call in and it's such a blessing to hear them.
Speaker 2:I mean anywhere from like five to like 12 to 15, like they span all sorts of ages, and that's wonderful. Yeah, they call in and Miss Debbie's always, like you know, asking them to. You know read a scripture or you know a scripture that they've memorized. And, oh my gosh, some of them and some of them get to choose, and a lot of them actually she gives them a scripture and they have to recite it. They're not like in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. It's like Paul.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like you know, line by line by line, and they nail it almost every single time and I'm just, I'm super impressed. I love that. Yeah, again, gotta have things like a child, all right. So with that I think I'm going to try and attempt mine. Mine was Genesis 1, 1 through 2. In the beginning, god created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and empty and darkness was covering the surface of the deep and the Holy Spirit was hovering over the waters.
Speaker 1:That was good.
Speaker 2:Bravo. I was forgetting like the darkness part of it, but I don't know. I almost feel like this is a good point to say, like we should be memorizing scripture, but not just to memorize it, you know, to be able to recite it back. I think it really should be again to like have it as tools in our armor right to be able to be used, but I mean obviously in chapter one one. It was kind of like oh, which one can we?
Speaker 1:pick. Yes, how can we apply this to our daily lives and remember it for our armor?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. So I think for me, I think, just remembering that you know again in the beginning how we started, and that formlessness, that void, and the holy spirit hovering I just again love that hovering concept. So, yeah, anywho, okay Getting into chapter two. So, sis, did you have any major what in the Bible moments?
Speaker 1:There is a pretty big topic in here that I'm that I had questions with at first and I think a lot of people are going to, and it's the whole that I had questions with at first and I think a lot of people are going to, and it's the whole why did God create the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you know? Like why even make it if, ultimately, he knew that humankind was going to fall short and sin? So I did look into that quite a lot. But I think that's a good question that a lot of people have, especially new believers, where you're wondering, you know, it almost makes it seem a little bit cruel in a way, like why would God set us up to fail, so to speak? It can be perceived that way. So that's kind of my big one.
Speaker 2:That is hilarious, because I wrote down the exact same thing. You did, I was like why did God place a tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil? Yeah, because I was right there with you, like why would God even give man the opportunity to fall like that? So I don't know what were your thoughts going through that question.
Speaker 1:Well, my first thought was it was kind of a test of obedience and kind of all wrapped into our free will, so to speak. You know, God doesn't want us to be robots. He wants us to choose him willingly. Otherwise, you know, what kind of relationship is it if you don't actually have to choose it? It's just kind of there choose it.
Speaker 2:It's just kind of there.
Speaker 1:So then, when I kind of looked into it more and again like I'm not saying that I know that this is the truth or this is exactly why this happened. I don't think anybody can sit here and say they know the reasonings behind what God does. But I think maybe it was God's redemption plan. His whole plan was to send Jesus as our Savior and for us to need our Savior. So I really think that that was part of it. He wanted our obedience, he wanted us to have free will to choose him and then, because God always works multiple angles at a time, you know he's always got multiple things in motion. So I think it was all part of his redemption plan, because if we didn't know that we needed him to be saved, why would we do it? You know?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I love that. That's exactly what I was thinking, because the free will especially. I found it interesting that he mentioned two trees the tree of life and then the tree of knowledge, of good and evil, and when I dug a little deeper, you know I like to look at the root words and all of that.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that. I actually took one. I'm going to attempt that myself this episode, so you're inspiring me.
Speaker 2:Oh good, yeah, I mean it's important, right? So when you look up knowledge, it actually interprets as cunning, unintentional interprets as cunning, unintentional awareness. What, yeah? And then I also, for some reason, I felt the need to break it down. So it's not only knowledge of good and evil, because I just think, okay, good and evil, like you know, it always goes hand in hand. But it's knowledge of good and it's knowledge of evil, it's both right.
Speaker 2:And I found it interesting also that there's not really much more mention of the tree of life. Scripture mentions both trees being planted in the middle. So they're, like I imagine them, side by side, in the middle, but God only commands Adam to not eat of the tree of knowledge. So I don't know why, like in my mind, I was like why that's an interesting distinction between the two, like both are in the same place. But this knowledge of good and evil was the only one that he commanded not to eat.
Speaker 2:And then, of course, he goes on to say because you'll surely die, which I also thought was interesting, because this tree equates, almost equates, death. And then it's sitting or it's planted right next to or in the same area as the tree of life. So I thought that was kind of interesting to have that balance there. Yeah, but again to your point, I completely agree, like I think God definitely gave us from the very beginning, gave man free will and commanded us not to do something, commanded Adam not to do something, you know, and thereby set up the choice to either listen or to disobey. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's so interesting too, where God is saying you know, you can't eat from that. He was providing in full to Adam and Eve that entire time. It's not like, oh, you can't eat from that. He was providing in full to Adam and Eve that entire time. It's not like, oh, you can't eat from that, but I know that you're hungry, kind of thing, like they were provided for in every sense of the word, like plentifully, and they had everything they needed. It was just they weren't allowed to do that thing, and then they still chose it. And I think you can really apply that to life. Even today. It might not be so cut and clear or so black and white, but God provides for us always in every aspect, and we still don't see it.
Speaker 2:Right, the word that comes to my mind is contentment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, anytime that you're asking for more, anytime you're ungrateful for what you do have, for what you have been provided for, that's almost like saying that you're not content with what God has already given you.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I love that. That's a really good point and, for sure, definitely something that I think a lot of people do, and maybe they don't intentionally like I'm not going to intentionally go out and sin, right, but and I think that's again that knowledge word, that cunning, because we describe the devil all the time he's cunning, right, he's tricky, I mean, he doesn't. It's not like in your face, I'm going to make you sin in this way. He goes about in a way that you don't even recognize. So I think, to understand that knowledge piece as cunning, it's like wow, it's literally like opening a door for the devil to come in. Yes, you know, and it may seem like you're just eating a piece of fruit, you know, but it's that act and what that does, the door that that opens for sin to come in. Yeah, that's really good, all right, anything, any other big what in the Bible?
Speaker 1:I did become somewhat fascinated with Genesis 2, 22 through 24. This might not be how this is supposed to be interpreted. This is just another thing that I kind of looked into because it was very intriguing to me. Okay, so where in Genesis 2.21, and it says so the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep and while he was sleeping he took one of the man's ribs and then closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib.
Speaker 1:So, me being not super knowledgeable of what exactly I'm reading, I looked into that because I'm like, well, my sister's a nurse, my husband's a firefighter, so obviously I know that the anatomy of a man and woman's ribs is the same. Because I'm like, well, okay, if I was reading this for the first time, or if I'm just putting myself in the place of somebody who was reading it for the first time, just reading that, so literally like one rib was taken, kind of thing, that's where my brain would go. So I started looking into that. I'm going to botch this, so don't judge me no judgment.
Speaker 1:The Hebrew translation for rib is okay. Selah saying that wrong which can actually mean side.
Speaker 1:So God potentially took a side of Adam and created Eve and you can look at this in kind of the way of like one half of Adam. Again, this is kind of where I went with it. If this is wrong, I apologize, look into it yourselves, don't take my word for it. Yeah, do your own due diligence. But this kind of goes on in Genesis. Let's see here 2.24, when it says this is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife and they become one flesh.
Speaker 1:So I really took that like god took half of adam, created eve, and that was not only in kind of a symbolic gesture, for when we come together as one flesh before god, I was like whoa, that's kind of like an aha moment. That makes a lot more sense and maybe also possibly a little symbolic because and this kind of trails into another part that I got out of the reading but side maybe is also representing how females come from a male's side, not from like below his feet or not from here. So it's kind of like our partnership being represented in a way where we are equal to each other, we compliment each other, we help one another.
Speaker 2:That is awesome. That's what I got out of it.
Speaker 1:I'm kind of rambling because I can't quite get it all out. I have it all written down in like sections and I'm like, okay, I gotta. I'm like that picture where the guy's at the board, you know, and his eyes look crazy, and he's got all these.
Speaker 2:All the strings attaching to everything else. Yeah, exactly. No, that's so good. You worded it so perfectly. I'm so proud. I don't know that I could do that any any more. Justice, honestly, oh.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you could.
Speaker 2:No, no, I, I agree wholeheartedly. And I think you know our Bible, we have the study Bible and I think it does talk about that and I absolutely think that this is pointing to the covenant marriage, right? So God fully intended for man to have partner, to, you know, for marriage. From the very beginning, here in Genesis, chapter two, he's creating marriage. Yeah, I mean, I think that's pretty profound, the fact that marriage is right up there with creation. You know what I mean? He creates Adam first and basically assigns him dominion over the earth. Has Adam assigned names to all the animals?
Speaker 2:And then God created Adam with characteristics of needing a partner. He created Adam with this need to have a partner and so, knowing that, he, you know, placed him in the garden meeting, brought him all these animals and he's like it's not good for a man to be alone, let me create a helper for him. I think he did that first and then he brought in the animals. But then, yeah, he creates women, like you said, from his side, because I am a nurse, so I'm like, okay, rib, Do men have one less rib than women?
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, that definitely pops in your brain, yeah, but I mean then it says, you know God closed up the place with flesh. So I think that closed up, like in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, he just like covered it, right and he left it as is. But God restores, like he's not going to leave anything unhealed. You know he's going to provide complete restoration. So I fully believe that he replaced. Well, I don't know, maybe in Adam's case because he did, you know, create Eve from the rib, maybe he didn't replace the rib, I don't know.
Speaker 2:But I really do think that Adam was, you know, left whole, in a sense that physically he was whole. But Eve woman was created to, like you said, join together, unite. I looked up unite and I think there's a whole nother conversation that we could have about the women being the helper. But the word unite is also translated as cleave or cling, or adhere, follow close Hard after Pursue hard. To me that just sounds like a very permanent thing. Adhere, like you know, when you think of adhesive, it's like a bond, it's not something that can easily be broken.
Speaker 2:The use of the word hard, these are all terms to me that is saying this is something we do become one flesh in marriage and it's not something that should ever be separated. And that's how God intended marriage between one man and one woman. And so, reading through the Bible and all the study notes, it was saying how women, like you said, were made alongside men, out of their side, to be equal to them, differing in roles and function, but equal. And then I don't know, I didn't really dig much more into marriage because I get a little, admittedly, I'm sorry, lord, I need more, more of your wisdom in this. But that representation between man and woman, that marriage covenant, but it's also meant to reflect the relationship between God and His people and Jesus and His church.
Speaker 2:So I think a lot of us in modern day times we're thinking marriage that's man and woman, and then, you know, we become one flesh which you know can represent many things, like one household, but also like an intimate way, right, and I mean clearly, like when we think of marriage in terms of the, you know, between God and his creation, we don't think about it in like that, like physically, like intimate way, like we do between husband and wife, but that intimacy, that relationship is still there and is still what God intended. So, again, I'm not like I still, I still have questions surrounding that, because I'm like I'm trying to picture the church as the bride and like Jesus is the bridegroom.
Speaker 1:So you know, yeah, I like that. I did have some notes as well about female being the helper, just because I feel like even in today's world that can be interpreted to use kind of for dominancy from the husband to the wife. I'm not saying that I know what it really means. I'm just saying from what we've learned in sermons from our pastor and what we've read and researched and whatnot, I came across something that was really interesting that God describes himself using the same word for helper throughout the Old Testament, so saying that, oh, you know, god needed to create a helper for Adam again the partnership like you talked about.
Speaker 1:But also because the word helper can also mean to nourish or sustain, and God used it for himself through the Old Testament. The woman was created in the image of God and her creation as a helper to the man actually reflects aspects of the character of God, especially, you know, just the nourishing, sustaining and protecting care of his children. So as helpers, or as Eve was a helper for Adam, it's literally attributes of God, like you said, how we're both equal but we have different attributes. So I just thought that was really neat, that we have our own strong role to play and it's side by side, right.
Speaker 2:And again planned from the beginning. It wasn't like an afterthought. Women were not an afterthought to God, I think our Bible actually says. I thought it was super interesting because it said God created the man and the woman in his image with physical and emotional needs that only another human being could meet. So like that right there, like God created Adam with these needs that only another human could meet, so knowing that he was going to create this helper for man, yeah, and yeah, like you said, I love that. But the attributes of God, to know that women were made with this helping attribute and that he refers to that, you know that description of himself as the helper. And then, I don't know if you probably looked up, you mentioned it a couple of different times. And then you know I went to the root word of, I think, helper, and it's azar to surround, protect or aid, which you mentioned. And then sakur, sakaur, sakaur, sakur. I don't know, I'm not very literate, sorry, your best guess is better than mine.
Speaker 2:But that and I had to Google that because I'm like what does that mean? But it means to assist and support in times of hardship and distress and not to say that men aren't tough because they are. But you know, when I think of that emotional toughness and that supportive, that helping, especially when times get hard. And you know, when kids get hurt, who do they run to like?
Speaker 2:you know that again, that holy spirit hovering over the earth like that mother hen, like covering over and protecting her children, her chicks, you know what I mean like I just love that and I've never been more happy to be a woman. Yeah, you know, and this is by no means like a Go Women podcast, but we could talk about that though, right, because I think these days, you know this whole feminism movement and we don't need no man Right.
Speaker 2:Exactly this strive for independence, like I feel like that almost takes us farther away from who we actually are and like who god intended us to be. You know who? He created us to be. You know the role, the function that he gave us, and I am just so blessed to be a mom. I really like looking at it in this way and just knowing like, yeah, god created us, knowing that we were going to be needed to help, support and protect and to help through hard times.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah, we weren't an afterthought, we were needed from the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I also think that's a little bit like the enemy at work too the whole feminism movement and again, like there is nothing wrong with not being married, being a woman and not being married, there's nothing wrong with that at all. But I think it's almost to the point now where it's looked down upon. If you're a little more traditional, if you're married, if you're home with the kids, if you're working and have kids, I mean it's a little bit like frowned upon almost in today's society, where I think that that's kind of like the enemy at hand, where it pulls us further, like you said, from God's overall plan. Right.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely and well. And that's what the enemy does, right. He distorts. You know what God does? It's always this, like counterfeit right. So Ephesians chapter five, talks a lot about the roles in the household, including parents, including children, including husband, including wife. Like you mentioned, our pastor has sorry, I almost name dropped there Like you mentioned our pastor has.
Speaker 1:Sorry, I almost name dropped there.
Speaker 2:Sure, you know he has talked about that.
Speaker 2:And I think the differentiation there. Genesis, chapter 2, it refers to women as the helper right. It doesn't explicitly say submit, which I think in Ephesians, chapter 5 is maybe not the first time we hear that word introduced in terms of the roles between husband and wife, but I think that's the piece that's hard to swallow for a lot of women because you know, we don't want to submit Again. We have been reared in this culture where it's like if you are submissive it's frowned upon, it's distasteful. You know it's this drive to be our own powerful, independent woman. But when you break down again, you have to break down that word.
Speaker 2:And it's not submissive in a point to assign lordship to the husband. Right, it's not. Wives must do everything your husbands tell you kind of thing. And also important to know this is in terms of believers right, it's not your unbelieving husband and you're maybe a believer, but you have to. And I'm sorry, guys, we don't fully intend to like make this about. You know, women, and maybe we should be talking a little bit more about the male side of things here, because I don't want this to be just, like you know, a podcast geared towards women but all of this is a cohesive working together relationship.
Speaker 2:Men, out of love for their wives, honor them and protect them and acknowledge their needs and fulfill their needs. Yeah, I think Ephesians 5 says Christ did Right, christ loved the church Right.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 2:And that servant leadership, right, it's so funny that came up with my daughter. She was playing queen and kings. Her brother was coming over. She chose to make her brother the king for some reason and she was a queen. I'm just going to say it's like Chronicles of Narnia and they're, you know, sibling rulers, anyway. There you go, yeah, and so she was like the way that she was playing, though she was very dictative and was like I am the queen, so you have to do what I say, and I'm like I'm over here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's very bold. I will just say that she's a bold child. She's very outgoing, extroverted, like I'm a little bit extroverted, but the majority of my personality is very much an introvert. So she gets me a little uncomfortable sometimes she puts me in an uncomfortable situation. So, yes, anyway, I'm mopping in the kitchen and over here playing like commanding people to do things for her and just like in a very authoritative way, and I'm like, hey, babe, you know Jesus had a lot to say about people who are in a position to lead and in a position of power and I was like you know what he said.
Speaker 2:She's like what? Like he said, you know the first should be last and the last should be first. You should actually lead with a heart for your people and out of love. And you know the first should be last and the last should be first. You should actually lead with a heart for your people and out of love and, you know, actually serve them. And from there, when they see you serving them as their leader, they in turn turn around and they want to serve you because they love you. And they see that. You know you're humble and I don't know.
Speaker 2:I said it a lot less like in terms that a five-year-old, almost six-year-old, can understand. Oh my gosh, Thursday she'll be six.
Speaker 1:I know A six-year-old.
Speaker 2:I know, but then she was just like yeah, okay, so you have to do what I say she's like okay, irrelevant, mom, yeah, but I mean I think that's, you know you can apply that to the marriage. You know it's that out of love for each other, you know we're serving in our role that God intended for each other and that in turn causes each partner to want to reciprocate and serve each other.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and I think the healthiest marriages are the ones that try to do what the Bible says. You know it's not like, okay, we have these very strict rules that you have to follow. It's more so like a loving guide for what is going to help you achieve the best relationship that you can have.
Speaker 2:So yeah, absolutely Love that. I'm sorry, guys, I really didn't highlight a whole lot on the men's side. Our bible says it's titled the women's, so it is very much geared towards women. So that's probably why we're a little lopsided right now. But well, we're also our women.
Speaker 1:We are women, you know it's hard to speak on behalf of the men when we're not men. I think we need to have a guest.
Speaker 2:I was just gonna say that we need some male input probably can we get the man's perspective here?
Speaker 2:But it does say a lot about, you know, the nature of a man in our Bible and it talks about masculinity. And again, it's not, you know, men to lord over and command that you know, like my daughter, command that you do stuff for them or that you listen to them, because this is what God intended. But it's that leadership role, right, and I'm single and you know I've been again back in the faith for two years. As a non-believer I don't think you really think about I mean you have these what I would like in a man kind of thing. But as a believer, when you start considering dating and who you could potentially be attracted to and who you want, who you're praying for, like you start praying for this person, right, and that was something like I, you know, read Genesis, read this chapter, and I was like you know God's plan for marriage and the creation of woman and what he intended that to be, and I very much started to pray for a man that pursued God you know as much, if not more so, than I did you know and someone that could be the headship, the leader of my family, not just, you know, protection, wise and supportive, like maybe monetarily, but also in a spiritual sense, like being a spiritual leader. And I started praying for that and that is very much something that you know, as a Christian woman that I am looking for. I just think that it's important to have that discernment also because I think that we could meet Christian men, but I think that for me it's funny, I think for me, a man having that discernment and that's something that's ever evolving, right Like anything else.
Speaker 2:And as you grow, what did our pastor say the other night? That progressive sanctification yeah, so you know that. And sanctification fancy word for set apart for God's purposes. That happens the minute you become a believer and you put your faith in Jesus. He comes and sanctifies you sets, set apart for God's purposes. And it happens when you, the minute you become a believer and you put your faith in Jesus, he comes and sanctifies you, sets you apart for his purposes as his people. But then there's this progressive sanctification where it's like ongoing as you're growing in the faith, you're growing closer to Jesus, and discernment, I think, is part of that. But for me, if you have, like, no discernment at all, I'm kind of like thanks, no, thank you.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, so it's funny. It's funny how, like you know, you start looking at dating differently and partners differently.
Speaker 1:But well, I think that's part of your own progressive sanctification.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because you've learned discernment, so you're also looking for someone who's gonna be equally yoked.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I don't think there's anything wrong with that. I think that that shows your growth in your own faith.
Speaker 2:And I hope this isn't my pride but I'm also thinking like if I'm going to submit to someone, it better be someone that's stronger in the faith than I am I was going to say I can see your growth literally from here, just because for you to say that you're at that place in your life, that's what you're looking for.
Speaker 1:It's very different from, you know, pre-faith Audrey, we're in pre-faith me and you know we're strong women and we're strong headed women, so it shows growth all the way around.
Speaker 2:Really, yeah, and hopefully like new knowledge and insight and wisdom into again what that word surrender means. Because I think when you break it down and you realize it's not, we think of surrender as this below under, not slave, but we think of it in a derogatory way and not in the way that brings fulfillment and not in the way that brings fulfillment. And when we do it out of a place of love, you know what that can do for a relationship and how that does bring you closer to God. And I have Christian friends that are, you know, women that are like I don't want to submit, like I just I have such a hard time with that idea, with that word, and I think honestly, at the end of the day you just got to.
Speaker 2:You know pray Paul writes, you know, if you can stay single, it's good to be single because then you can focus on God and like what his purpose is for your life. But I think again, like God created marriage at the in the beginning of creation. So I'm I'm actually reading this book right now Christ-Centered Dating and the first chapter is really much focusing on glorifying God and what that truly means and God and our relationship with God and glorifying God was not created for marriage and I think a lot of times people get that mixed up Like they think, okay, if I glorify God and I'm following his laws and I'm doing all these things, I'm going to be rewarded by marriage because it's what I want, like I feel a heart call to marriage, to marriage, and I used to have a lot of guilt about that because I used to think again, I kind of come from this place of I have to earn love and feeling like unworthy and like I have to do like works right, receiving love through works.
Speaker 2:And I actually I did write that down in the beginning of this chapter because it talks about rest- and that rest, not just meaning not abstaining from work right, but rest in a sense that we do not have to work for salvation. Yeah, like it is not by our works that we are saved. It is completely through Christ and His sacrifice on the cross that we are saved. Nothing we could ever do is going to save us, so we don't have to work for it. We don't have to work for salvation. We don't have to work for salvation. We don't have to work for His love. It is freely given and we can rest in that knowledge and that awareness and knowing that we are saved. Now, does that give us an excuse to lie around all day and not do what God's called us to do? No, of course not. So the author reverses it and he's like the opposite is true.
Speaker 2:Marriage was intended to glorify God. So when you think about it in terms of you're not glorifying God to get marriage, you get married because it's what God has put on your heart. He created you and some people aren't created for marriage. Some people are like I want to focus on my faith and growing up and that's what's important to me and that's okay and God created them for that. But for those who feel called to marriage and want to be married. That's okay too, and that he created that for you. And it's okay to date.
Speaker 2:It's okay to pursue marriage, because I've heard a lot of stories like when I was least expecting it, god blessed me with it. And when I focused on him and while I do agree you should be focusing on God, you can also do that while you're pursuing a relationship, while you're dating, while you're I think he calls it pursuing marriage, because out of that, out of that relationship, you can glorify God as a couple. And I really like the way that he defined glorifying God. It's actually making him known in any way, that his character comes through in anything that you do or say or how you live. That is glorifying God. Making him known to others is what glorifying God really means, and I always thought glorifying God is, like you know, praise and worship, woohoo, like yeah glory to God, but when we really break it down and understand what that truly means.
Speaker 2:It's the way that we live. It's, you know, visible evidence of his existence in the way that we live and talk and the way that our relationships are. And again, like getting married. That can, what results from marriage can be glorifying God. Yeah, yeah, oh, I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm learning a lot, yeah for sure. Well, and I mean even just you being single and kind of in this season, where you're ready and you're praying on it and you're reading about it and you're working on it with God. I think that that still can even apply to somebody who is married or who is already married, because my situation was a little bit different. But same thing where I still have to learn, and I'm still currently learning how to be a godly wife and how to glorify God through my marriage, and that can be challenging to do when you haven't done it before. You know, not to say like we've.
Speaker 1:You know my husband and I have a good marriage, but I will say like within the last year and a half-ish I mean pretty much ever since I got back into the faith like our marriage has just been so wonderful in so many ways. I mean again, not without challenges, but knowing that I'm trying to fulfill my godly role in my marriage. It's just, it's a lot of work but it is so rewarding. So if any of you are married already, you know, and you're like, how do I, how do I apply this to my life now? Like you, just I promise you just start doing it, then you're going to feel God in your marriage and there's just nothing quite like it.
Speaker 2:I love that. That's so good, such great advice, you know, on both sides.
Speaker 1:Yeah, different perspectives.
Speaker 2:And yeah, so we kind of talked about rest a little bit, so we'll go over that. But so two, verse two, sorry, chapter two, verse five. Okay, I kind of had a jaw drop moment, you and the plants man. Well, because remember, in in episode two, two, one, two. Anyway, chapter one, yeah, we were talking about, like god, separating the waters and rain and all that, right, yes, so I'm reading this. I'm like, okay, now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung. The lord, god, had not sent rain on the earth, right, and there was no one to work the ground.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, how did I not remember that verse as we were talking about you, you know chapter one and the sequence of events, but I love that. I was kind of like, oh, oh, okay, all right. But then, you know, it goes on to say, you know, talk about the streams or whatnot. So, first of all, I think it's so like the two things needed for vegetation, right, water Right, and someone to work the ground, man, right. Yeah, I think that's pretty cool that God used man to bring about vegetation for creation, right, amazing.
Speaker 2:So streams? I had to look that up because you know, of course, in my mind I'm thinking streams, like rivers flowing through, but I'm like how would that get out of the stream where it's at, onto the land? But it actually translates to mist or fog. So I think about, you know, the dew in the early morning just kind of settling on the ground. Oh, my goodness. So that was kind of a not a wet in the Bible moment, but a kind of like, oh, okay, you know that first question we had in one like what you know what came first?
Speaker 1:plants or rain, rain or plants, rain that's just wild, though, when you look up streams because, again, I just read it so literally all the time yeah, so for you to look that up and then go, no, it's actually like missed or like the do. Why doesn't it just say that? Then I am sorry, lord, but why, right? I'm like it's just, it's such a different perspective. Yeah, in that sense I'm literally as you were talking. I was trying to pull out my bible app and read it in a different translation to see if it also says streams in every other translation.
Speaker 2:Look up strongs right now to make sure. Like is it strings. That's so funny. What we're sorry in five yeah six. Yeah, it says mist kjv. I think it says oh, it does okay, yep, but there went up a mist from the earth and watered the whole face of the okay yeah, well, again, I mean, that's just goes to show that the bible translation that you're using can matter.
Speaker 1:It does matter, like why doesn't it just say that? Oh, it does. Yeah, a different version right, okay, lovely.
Speaker 2:so, and then I think my other this is probably like the biggest one which I mean, I don't know, I really like I probably went down a major rabbit hole with this, but oh, I'm excited. So in verse eight it says that god created the garden of, basically, and he says he planted a garden in the east, in Eden, and I'm like, in the east, relative to where? Like where is Eden, lord? And like is it just invisible? But it's still there now, like where is Eden? So then you know, a little bit later on down it talks about all these rivers.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you about the rivers. Yeah, more water right.
Speaker 2:So, and I mean again, I'm not going to say that I have this like huge epiphany kind of thing, but I did rabbit hole a little bit. So stay with me, right, okay, I'm ready. Okay, so from this Garden of Eden there was a single river, a river watering the garden flowed from eden and from that it basically branched out into four heads. So heads translates as chief or top, so basically like the very top of these rivers that then flowed down through the different lands. Right, okay, all right.
Speaker 2:The first river, oh gosh, pichon, pichon, pichon, pichon. So it's when you look that up on strongs, it translates to a river of eden, from the root word push to spread, grow, fat, spread or be scattered, and it describes like the land that it goes through. So in our bible it says that it's. This land is now what is known as armenia and back in the, in the day it was known as Mesopotamia, which is modern day Iraq, some parts of Iran, syria and Turkey. So our Bible has, at the very back it has, maps, and I go back all the time because I'm like I want to see these rivers, where are these rivers at? So it'll have a world of the patriarchs and you can see there.
Speaker 2:It mentioned some of the rivers, but not all of them, but it will show you the general region. So it's what's known as, like modern day, iran, turkey, like all those countries. So the number two, gihon. But it's also, so when you look up its literal translation, a river of paradise with a capital P, so probably referencing Eden again, because capital P is a name right or a place. And then number three is the Tigris or Tigris River, which I found very interesting. It actually did not have a root word attached to it, so when you look it up on Strong's it says probably a foreign origin, so probably named later by, I don't know a foreign language other than, you know, hebrew.
Speaker 2:Someone who speaks something other than Hebrew. It's described as east of Asher, which when you look it up in our Bible it actually says Asher was probably a city, but KJV actually doesn't say Asherah, it says Assyria. So then when you look at the map which I don't think it's on that map it's basically right there around, like I think, where the Babylonians were. Okay, so right around there, right? So we're getting a general idea of where these rivers are. Are you following?
Speaker 1:You're tracking where I'm going with this, okay where these rivers are.
Speaker 2:Are you following? You're tracking where I'm going with this? Okay, and then the river Euphrates, right? So my question was, okay, where do the rivers originate and which direction do they flow? Because I'm like where's the Garden of Eden, Lord?
Speaker 1:I don't want to know where this garden is at.
Speaker 2:So I'm looking at our map and if you look at the map it's color coded right. So there's like gray areas and there's maybe some like beige and maybe a little bit more darker purple. So every map should have a legend like this is how far this distance is, but it also will give you an elevation legend. So in the bottom left corner there it has like different color codes. I actually don't judge me, but I did Google. Do rivers flow east to west? Don't judge me, but I did Google. Do rivers flow east to west? How do rivers flow? And I'm like duh, like I am smart, you guys.
Speaker 2:I swear but again, this is probably where that duh like street smart I'm lacking in like common sense. Gravity right, so rivers actually flow from places of higher elevation down to lower. So when you look at the map, if you follow the river Euphrates and Tigris, it actually they pretty much come together into a single point river that flows into the Persian Gulf.
Speaker 2:So I'm looking at this map and I'm like, okay, well, clearly it comes from the Persian Gulf, like that's the source. It's going to flow like up this way. But then I'm thinking, well, when you look at how rivers flow and they go from high to low, so then you look again at the legend. And if you look at how rivers flow and they go from high to low, so then you look again at the legend, and if you look over here that the, the elevation is listed there with like the purple, the purple beige color. So where on that map is the purple beige? Like up in mesopotamia, where we talked about, where assyria is. So up at the higher part of that map, like where it says Mount Ararat, which I think is where you were talking about Noah landed.
Speaker 1:Yes, that was, that was it.
Speaker 2:So when you follow those rivers up, they literally start up in that region, literally start up in that region. So I looked at a modern day armenia and it's right between russia and where's the other one, turkey and iran. So I think the garden of eden was somewhere around that location and that's where those rivers started from and then they flowed down into the Persian Gulf Down into, yeah, and terminate in the Persian Gulf.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, yeah, you really went and got all straight up book smart I know.
Speaker 2:So I'm like we're following maps Okay Well.
Speaker 2:I was kind of like where? Because they're not listed on every map. And then, like, I think there's a river that that traverses, so like the euphrates and the tigris, they run kind of parallel to one another, but then there's a river that connects the two perpendicularly and I can't remember if they think that one is pichon or gihon. But if you look like, if you look this up, there's a bunch of different theories out there about which river is which. And actually the pichon, I think the way that it describes maybe it was Gihon. Oh, the one that says from it was gold pearl, onyx, I think there's mention of Ethiopia.
Speaker 1:I can't remember, if it was Gihon or Pishon.
Speaker 2:Anyway, one of those rivers that's not explicitly written out on the map, they say flows all the way down through egypt and actually, like is a branch of the nile or what is that? Yes, I saw that yeah, so kind of interesting to kind of have a ballpark figure maybe in that general area, in the general area.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, that's so cool you always take it and run with it.
Speaker 2:I don't know, I probably just confused a bunch of people and it may be completely off base, but I don't know. No, I think that's really neat and you know, of course, I'm thinking like OK, so like what would Moses's reason for including this be? But I mean, maybe it's just to establish, like geography, and like this is how this, these rivers, came from, and because I mean, they probably would have used that a lot in those times to navigate where they lived, where they were going, all that fun stuff yeah, yeah, I definitely read that and was kind of glossed over it a little bit you know, I got like that glossy look in my eye like I'm getting lost.
Speaker 1:Why is this relevant? I mean, I feel like every single thing in the Bible is relevant, but, again, hard for us to read it in our modern day age where, like you said, these places are not even on maps really anymore and it can be challenging to find. I had the same question, so I was. I had that written down like why rivers, why rivers?
Speaker 2:Why more rivers? Ask Audrey. Why rivers? Why rivers? Why more rivers? Ask Audrey. Well, I doubt I answered your question, but I think it's just interesting to, like you said, why is it mentioned? What's the significance? And I mean it probably wasn't like a roadmap to this is where Eden is, guys. But I mean, I think it's fun because things have changed right, and I, of course, I think it's important to consider, you know where, where did this take place in biblical times? But where is that in modern day terms? You know. So, and I mean again, especially like with everything going on right now over in Israel and Syria, I think it's very interesting to see where things started and where things are prophesied to end. Right, you know, it's all in the same place.
Speaker 1:I know, yeah Ooh, revelation's a long way away.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank goodness. I don't think we'll ever be ready for that. One Revelation will probably happen before we get there. Yeah, at this point, oh goodness.
Speaker 2:That's funny. Well, thank you guys. So much for joining us again for this third episode of what in the Bible. Yeah, as always, we encourage you to please leave your comments. Check out our Facebook page, all our socials, if you feel so inclined. Please leave us a review, leave us your thoughts. If you follow us on Spotify or any other podcast streaming platform, please consider liking and subscribing. You know, our point is really just to help people maybe grow closer to Jesus and grow in their knowledge of the Bible and just kind of do a Bible study with us. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I didn't pick out a scripture either, did you I?
Speaker 1:completely forgot.
Speaker 2:No, ma'am man, we keep forgetting that.
Speaker 1:You know, I think I I'm gonna be brave here um because you did mention the rest section. I really loved what you got out of that. As far as you know, not having to work for our salvation, I took it as we need to remember to rest in God and make time to rest. That's something that I struggle with immensely in my life, so I'm going to memorize Genesis 2, 3. That's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because I think you know God modeled what he intended for us to do. Yeah To him for sure.
Speaker 2:Yes, I need the reminder, so that's so good, um, but I really want to memorize 23 through. I don't know. I almost want to go all the way to 25, just because I think it so beautifully wraps up marriage and me being in the season that I'm in and pursuing that. I think it's a good reminder of what God intended for marriage. And I really like 25, which we didn't really talk about, but it says Adam and his wife were both naked and they felt no shame that naked I mean.
Speaker 2:To me, obviously, it could mean in a literal sense like not having any clothes on and not being ashamed, but for me, vulnerability being fully exposed and allowing someone else to see that, to see you in your mess, like your flaws, the good things about you, but the you know the flaws too and the things that you struggle with, and being open and honest with someone about that and being willing to trust someone with that, with your vulnerability, you know, but not having that shame to be completely comfortable with that other person yeah, I think that's really beautiful and rare in these days. Yeah, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. That was beautiful. I loved how you got that.
Speaker 2:Thanks, so okay, yeah, so I'm going to do, I think, 23 through 25.
Speaker 1:Oh, you are much braver than I am, but 23 through 25. Oh, you are much braver than I am, but I love that Cool.
Speaker 1:And I love how, even though we're only in the second chapter of the entire Bible, god's already speaking to us through it, Kind of just in a very subtle way too, with this memory verse thing, and I mean you just talked about it in the beginning, where it was like we're not, we kind of struggled with the first chapter and finding something that was super relevant in our own lives, you know, and not memorizing it, just simply to memorize it. But I think it's just so wonderful how God plants those little things for us individually, for what we can focus on and remember and study and memorize, so that it's in our brains when we need it. Thank you, lord, thank you.
Speaker 2:Lord, you're so good, all right.
Speaker 1:Okay, Well, yeah Again. We just thank you guys so much for tuning in and taking time out of your day and your support and your love as we tackle those hard questions.
Speaker 2:Yes, so next episode we'll be talking about the fall oh the real nitty gritty oh my gosh, you guys. So much cool stuff coming out of this chapter, the fall. I think this might be one of my favorite chapters in Genesis, just because I think it sets the stage for so much, so much, yeah. So come back next episode as we tackle the fall. In the meantime, keep praying and stay fed by the word of God. Bye, guys, bye, you guys.
Speaker 1:Hey everyone, it's Jenna. With what in the Bible we want to start by emphasizing we are by no means experts in Bible theology or interpretation. We highly encourage any new believer or anyone struggling with understanding the Bible to get connected to your local church and seek guidance from your pastor or other believers that are more mature in the faith. Most importantly, we understand that prayer is an integral part of reading, learning and understanding scripture, and we encourage you to spend some time with the Lord in prayer before diving into God's word. The Holy Spirit is the best teacher and counselor to provide insight, wisdom and true understanding of scripture. Thank you for listening and we hope you join us for our next episode.
